Inside Ivey

PHIL IVEY JUST WANTS TO PLAY POKER. He loves the quest, the battle, the victory. All of that other stuff that has become a part of the game at its highest levels—endorsements, books, interviews—he can do without. Ivey is one of the most recognizable stars in the poker universe, a true testament to his skill because his fame surely hasn’t stemmed from any sort of brilliant public relations campaign or corporate marketing plan. Quick, rattle off everything you know about Ivey away from the table. Maybe you know he’s from New Jersey. Maybe you know he’s learning how to play golf. Maybe.

What we know most about Ivey are his poker accomplishments. In 2000, he won his first World Series of Poker bracelet, at Pot-Limit Omaha, at the tender age of 23. He tied a World Series of Poker record two years later when he conquered three events in a single year. He notched his first major No-Limit Hold ’Em title when he took down the 2004 American Poker Championship, the first poker tournament televised live.

At this year’s World Series of Poker, he won his fifth career bracelet, raking in $635,603 for taking another Pot-Limit Omaha title. Then he made a run deep into the Hold ’Em Main Event, finishing 20th and taking home $304,680.

Perhaps what Ivey is most proud of is his regular seat in The Big Game, a high-limit cash game that can take place any night of the week on Table Number One at Bellagio. The likes of Doyle Brunson, Johnny Chan, Barry Greenstein, Jennifer Harman, and Chip Reese gather to play a mix game for stakes as high as $4,000-$8,000.

Despite all that, Ivey is one of the few elite players who hasn’t become his own franchise. Aside from his affiliation with Full Tilt Poker, his main line of business is just being Phil Ivey, one of the greatest cash players on the planet.

“I like privacy,” Ivey says. “I appreciate every fan. I don’t mind people asking for autographs, but I’m just a poker player. I’ve been playing cards all my life, and then they started putting me on TV. I don’t feel like a celebrity.”

ALL IN tracked down the 28-year-old Las Vegas resident shortly after the World Series of Poker. Ivey obviously is an uncomfortable interview subject. Nevertheless, he took the time to discuss an assortment of topics, daring to provide a glimpse inside the life of a poker legend in the making.

ALL IN: How would you describe your childhood, growing up in New Jersey?

Ivey: I had a good childhood. I was raised by my mother and grandparents while my parents were separated, but they got back together when I was eight years old. I liked to have fun, go out and play a lot of basketball and football. I got into trouble, like normal kid stuff. I don’t remember what I did, but I wasn’t a little saint, that’s for sure. My mother worked for an insurance company, and my father was a union laborer. He passed away a couple months ago from heart disease. He was 55.

What did your father think about you being a professional poker player?

He liked it as long as I wasn’t doing something I wasn’t supposed to be doing. He was proud of me. He wasn’t really much of a poker player, but he played other games, like spades. He started getting into poker the last year so.

Was the rest of your family supportive?

My whole family wanted me to go to college, but I wasn’t really too into school. That wasn’t going to happen. I was very lucky to find something I was good at and be able to make a living doing it. What parent wants their kid to be a pro poker player, especially back then? Maybe now that it’s popular and on TV and everything. But there’s a good reason nobody should want their little boy or girl to be a professional poker player. For most people, that’s a lifetime of trouble. But my parents know I’m going to do what I want to do, so they kind of figured out pretty fast they would have to support it because they didn’t have a choice. They can tell their son’s pretty stubborn, and once I get my mind set on something, that’s what I’m going to do.

There are a few articles out there that said before your focus shifted completely toward poker, you were known for your phenomenal video game skills. How good were you?

They’re making that up. I played video games, but it was nothing serious. I was above average. Interviewers ask me questions like “Do you like to play video games?” I say, “Yeah, I like video games,” and then they just make up stuff. You say something and they write a phantom story. That’s why I don’t really read about myself too much. People always are going to have something to say, so I don’t put too much into it. If you start worrying about every little thing people say about you, you won’t be able to sleep.

When did poker enter your life, and how did your card-playing passion develop?

My grandfather taught me how to play Five-Card Stud when I was eight years old. He used to cheat because he didn’t want me gambling. I would wonder why I never won. He would deal from the bottom of the deck when I wasn’t looking. It’s pretty easy to cheat an eight-year-old kid. We would play for pennies, and I would always lose. My grandmother would come into the room and yell at him, “You stop cheating that boy!” He would say, “I’m trying to teach him a lesson.”

I guess it didn’t work.

No. I loved playing cards. I loved playing all games, like Monopoly. I just wanted to play. I loved playing. For a long time, I didn’t play too much poker—maybe every once in a while—until I was 16. I played at one of my friends’ house with his father and a bunch of his friends. I asked if I could take a seat, and sat down for like a $30 buy-in. I believe I won that day, like $150.

Looking back, how significant was that day in setting you on your path?

It was very important in my life. I remember saying to my friend’s mom, “I want to be a professional gambler.” She said, “Well, you’re going to need a really good job.” “What do I need a job for if I’m a pro gambler?” I’d say things like this all the time to my friends and teachers in school. They would just laugh at me and say I was crazy. I always knew what I was going to do. I knew I was going to be a gambler.

Tell us how Jerome Graham influenced your poker career.

He’s a guy that worked a telemarketing job I had. I would use his ID to go to Atlantic City, and when I was playing, everybody knew me as Jerome. I got carded a lot. I look young now, but I looked really young when I was 16 or 17. When I turned 21, I told the pit boss my name was Phil, and I had been playing with a fake ID. But I was 21, and there was nothing they could do now. She just said “Okay, Phil.”

What did Jerome Graham get out of the deal?

I paid him to use it. I paid him $50. It was a pretty good deal for me.

So you knew Jerome Graham from a telemarketing job. Is that your only attempt at trying to make an honest living?

I worked the telemarketing job raising money for the Fraternal Order of Police. I worked at McDonald’s when I was 16, 17 years old. There were a lot of tough times. I was a losing gambler until I was 21. I would win, lose, but for the most part I would lose. A lot of that comes from being immature, not knowing how to manage your money, not knowing what games to play or not to play. It comes from overrating your abilities and thinking you’re a little better than you are.

Poker is a game where you’re always learning. I would go down to Atlantic City and I would play blackjack and craps and lose all but a little bit of money to play poker with, build my money back, and start all over again. One day I just wised up and said, “This is what I’m going to do and that’s it.” I started making a little money here, a little there, until I could quit my job.

Since you met your wife, Luciaetta, at the telemarketing office, she experienced your evolution into a professional poker player. What kind of input did she have at that pivotal stage in your life?

She always supported me from the very beginning. I know my wife was a little nervous as far as me gambling and going down to Atlantic City. But I always felt that she was behind me.

What was she most worried about?

She was just worried about my well being. People are right to worry about people who gamble every day. Most people who gamble every day end up broke. Ninety-nine percent end up in really bad shape. I wouldn’t want my kids to do what I do. I wouldn’t recommend it. It takes a certain kind of person to be successful in this business.

How essential was your wife’s support in helping you attain the success you’ve had thus far?

That was very important. I look back on that now, and I don’t think I realized how important it was at the time, but it makes you believe in yourself. I had support there, and there wasn’t really anybody else aside from her who believed in me like she did. That was really big. And when I do well, I not only feel I do well for myself, but I do well for her, too. I felt like I was playing for the both of us. It gives you more responsibility.

Did her presence make you a more conscientious player?

It helped me out because I don’t want her to have a tough life. I can deal with losing and having to stay in a hotel and struggle a little bit. But I don’t want to put her through that. We already had tough times early in my career, so I don’t want to put her through that again.

How bad were the early days?

We would be sitting in my apartment and the lights would get cut off. There were times when I was three months late on my rent and there was no hot water. The electricity was turned off, no cable. Everything was a complete wreck. I would think, I’m looking like a bum here. She could get up and leave me. But she didn’t make me feel like she had come close to leaving me.

How did you go about preparing yourself for a life in poker? Did you read books or was it more trial and error?

I skimmed through some books, but I never actually read a whole book. You learn with the people you play with. The best way is to just sit down, play, learn from mistakes, and lose money. You have to be willing to lose. That’s how you get better. Nobody ever improves unless they put in the time. In the early days, I would play 12 to 15 hours a day for five days straight. I was pretty sick with it for a while.

You’re so stoic at the table. Does that come naturally or did you have to work at that? Did you have to eliminate any specific tells?

That comes naturally. It’s just concentration and paying attention to what’s going on. When I lose a tough hand, it doesn’t bother me that much. Not that I’m not emotional or concerned with what’s going on. It’s just another poker hand. I play such high stakes that when I lose a poker hand, it’s not that big a deal. I’ll get lucky and win hands I shouldn’t and lose hands I shouldn’t lose. I try not to put too much into any one hand of poker.

You built your reputation as a great cash player. What gives you your biggest edge?

You can’t be afraid when you play in the cash games. You have to have a certain disrespect for money. If you have, say, $300,000 in front of you, you can’t think, Oh, man. I can buy a house. You have to think about making the right decisions and seeing what’s in front of you as chips instead of money.

Many people can’t be successful as cash players because they think, If I lose this in a half-hour it would be devastating. You have to be able to go on with your life. All my gambling experience has made me better equipped for being able to deal with losing money.

Pretty much everybody considers the World Series of Poker Main Event to be the pinnacle of the game, but can’t a case be made for the Big Game? Anybody with online luck or $10,000 to blow can play in the World Series, but it doesn’t get more exclusive than the Big Game.

I agree. Anybody can buy into a poker tournament, but to get to the top you have to play with the best players in the world. To play in the biggest cash games in the world is tougher than any tournament. You’re playing against better players and these guys are really, really, really good players. You have to outthink them and outguess them, outplay them and figure them out. That’s tougher than any tournament could ever be.

For us hacks, could you explain what it feels like to play in the Big Game?

I do it so often it doesn’t seem like a big deal. But it’s a privilege to play in that big of a poker game because it took a lot of hard work and time working on my poker game to get there. There are a lot of talented poker players out there who are not in that game for a number of reasons. Maybe they can’t handle losing that type of money. Maybe they can’t handle the mental swings of the game. A lot of players just aren’t right for that game. I love it because it’s the biggest game in the world. You could win or lose a million in a day.

How do you handle such monstrous swings?

Every day is a different day. Poker is about living in the moment. Just like in golf, it’s one shot at a time. You don’t want to get too ahead of yourself. On the golf course, you don’t think five shots ahead. You think only about your next shot. And if you have a bad shot, you don’t want to think about that. You forget it and move on. That’s why poker and golf are so similar when you’re playing at a competitive level.

What do you consider the biggest adjustments a player must make when going from a cash game to a tournament or vice versa?

You have to be a lot more patient and be willing to put in the time in a tournament. Every tournament you play in, you’re not a favorite to win it, no matter how good you are, because so many random things can happen. It’s poker. For me, in a tournament, I just have to be patient and get through the first day. My biggest problem in tournaments is rushing and trying to get chips too fast. In a cash game, you can always re-buy. In a tournament, every decision can end your tournament. It’s like life and death. Make a mistake and you’re out.

You have tried to make an effort to bypass cash games to concentrate more on tournaments. Why is that?

Before, I would play cash games all night—14, 15 hours—and go right to the poker tournament. I would end up not playing my best. I’m going to prepare better for the poker tournaments I play in. I’m going to try the best I can. In a lot of poker tournaments, if there’s a good cash game going on the side, I wouldn’t try too hard because I would want to go get into that game. It was hard for the top players in tournaments because there were cash games going on where you could go make more money. It’s tough to gear down for a poker tournament when the most you can win is $500,000 or $600,000. You play for that every day in the Big Game. I would feel like I had wasted all that time and could have been playing in a cash game. I love cash games and making real money, but I just decided I wasn’t going to waste my money or time by not giving my best at tournaments. That’s why I’ve been doing lot better in poker tournaments.

So why play tournaments at all?

I play tournaments because I like them. They’re very competitive, very intense down to the end. It’s much more intense than a cash game when you get down to the final table.

So do you sacrifice much in winnings by concentrating more on tournaments? Are any losses offset by exposure and potential endorsements?

I’m not really worried about the money aspect of it. I just want to do what I like to do.

What do you make of all those near misses in tournaments recently? The 2005 WSOP Main Event, six WPT final tables with no titles …

When you get down to the end of a poker tournament, the structure gets so high, the antes and the blinds make the hands you have to play a whole different game. You have to get lucky. You have to win those hands. When you get down to the end and lose two or three hands in a row, you’re done. You have to win a big percentage of the hands you enter. I have played okay, but I also made some mistakes in the tournaments. I also got a little unlucky, too.

Does the structure of these tournaments not jibe with your style for some reason?

I can adjust to any structure, so there’s really nothing about my game that affects me late in tournaments. Sometimes I get a little impatient and rush things a little bit. But I’ve also made nine final tables at the World Series of Poker and won five tournaments. So it breaks even. When you make a final table, you’re still a 9-to-1 underdog. So just because you make a final table doesn’t mean you’re going to win the tournament. My record at final tables is not as bad as it would seem, but people have a lot of high expectations. It’s disappointing to not win, but it is a poker game.

You have an association with Full Tilt Poker, but do you actually play much online?

I play at Full Tilt Poker on a daily basis. Playing online is really relaxing for me. I try to play online at least an hour a day. There are not really big enough games online, so I just have fun and play 50-cent/$1 or nickle-dime. I’ll play all those lower games because I just want to play with people who might not get a chance to play with me in a real game. Some people never get to a casino, but they see us on TV and wonder what it’s like to play with us. Now they have that chance. It’s nice to be able to help people. They’ll ask how to play certain hands, and I’ll answer that for them.

In previous interviews, you have admitted having difficulty managing money and possessing compulsive tendencies. Those sure seem like dangerous attributes for a poker player.

You just have to understand yourself and know what you’re capable of and not capable of and how things have an effect on you. I know I like to gamble and bet a lot of money. I’m a risk taker, and I know that about myself. I think it all comes down to knowing your weaknesses and the ways to combat them. Maybe take a little break or take a vacation when things are going bad or not the way you want them to go. That’s how you combat that.

Is your affinity for golf the result of your compulsiveness?

Yeah. I like competing, and in golf, you can always set up a game. The great thing about golf is I can match up against Tiger Woods. He might have to give me 21/2 shots a hole, but we can have somewhat of a fair game. That’s the thing about golf, and you can gamble on every hole.

How’s your golf game coming along?

I’m terrible. I need a lot of work. I’m so terrible I can only get better. There’s only one way for my golf game to go. I plan on working pretty hard at it the next couple years.

Are you losing much money on the course?

I’m definitely not losing money on the golf course. I just set up a game I think is fair and try to win.

ESPN’s 2004 World Series of Poker featured a segment on you, Howard Lederer, and Robert Williamson III playing golf, and I must say you were the three worst golfers I’ve ever seen. Were those scenes staged to make your games funnier than they really were?

That was my first time I ever played, my first time ever on a course. Those were all real shots.

Mike Ruiz, an erstwhile caddie at Shadow Creek in Las Vegas, credits you with his resurgence in the sport, helping him relocate his passion for the game and qualify for this year’s U.S. Open. Tell us about your relationship and how you’ve helped each other.

He says I helped him do that? I didn’t know that. That’s kind of crazy. I go to Shadow Creek to play, and that’s where I met him. I would say, “Man, you’re good. What are you doing working as a caddie?” We would play for money and try to rattle him and needle him during his swing, but he’s just so good. Mike is a great guy. He’s really funny, and he’s the best dice shooter I’ve ever seen. We call him Golden Arm. We take him when we shoot dice at the Bellagio.

What else do you like to do for relaxation away from the tables?

Hang out with my wife, go to the movies, travel a little bit. We just went down to Laguna Beach for about five days. It’s nice to be able to do that.

How does the uncertainty of your profession play on your psyche? Do fears ever creep into your head that eventually you could lose it all?

No. I’m unconcerned. If I do what I’m supposed to do and play the way I’m capable of playing, I’ll be fine. For some poker players, there might be some uncertainty, but for me there’s not. My biggest enemy is myself. I’m my own toughest competitor. I just have to do what I can do and play like I can play, and I’m going to win at poker.

How long do you want to play poker as a career? Are there other vocations you’d like to pursue?

I’m always going to play poker. I’d like to get into other things, but there’s no reason to stop playing. There’s nothing else I want to do.